Welcome to the launch of “The Brothers Karamazov Deathmarch” — a collective exploration of the Fyodorovich family and their tale told in four parts over twelve books that are really two novels, plus: an epilogue. And did I mention it was originally written in another language?!
Based on last week’s comments, this could be the largest literary deathmarch we’ve launched. I’m really curious how many folks will make it through. But I have no doubts about you — I can tell you’re the sort of person who successfully completes literary deathmarches. That’s part of your charm and you don’t have to feel bad about it. Some people are born with laser vision.
Here’s a brief recap of how this thing works:
Everyone’s welcome to join — this is the official start, so if you didn’t post last week, not to worry — feel free to jump in here. Each Wednesday I’ll post a new entry (Week 1, Week 2, Week 3…) with our page count target (in the Pevear and Volokhonsky translation
Comment on each week’s post, make it through to the end, and you’ve qualified for your very own “I Survived the Brothers Karamazov Deathmarch” magnet, complete with ferromagnetic attractors. Comments can be profound. Or less so. You can comment before you read that week’s section as a “here I go!” or after you’re done, as a sort of after-meal mint. Believe it or not, “I’m 200 pages behind and I lost my book!” counts as a comment. I know. Crazy.
You might be tempted to read past the target but try not to get too far down the road — part of the fun is the slow-go. If you’ve zipped ahead, be sure not to get past that week’s reading in your comments.
And that’s the whole shpiel. Barkeep, if you could get me one of those extra-Russian Russian tea cookies in a to-go bag? I’ll see ya on the trail….
-Cecil
Next Wednesday: Let’s meet up at the end of Book Two, Chapter 4, where Aloyosha appears to be “right, very right.”
(which is to say: please use this Week 1 thread for comments on pages 0-59; aim to finish reading that section and shout out here by end o’ day Tuesday)
"…something like the supervisor of an entire team of political agents…"
Hey! East coast…morning commute? Totally left us hanging, but I’ll crack this open Thursday morning. Looking forward to it.
What could be more timely than a book about “greed, lust, squalor, unredeemed suffering, and sometimes terrifying darkness”? It’s like a juicy version of the Wall Street Journal without all those tedious references to market indices. I can’t wait!
Is there a pronunciation key somewhere? Maybe I can use an online dictionary that sounds out words for you…
Yay! My book arrived today. So just to make sure I get it, I keep shut until Tuesday, and then I can write about what we’ve read so far here?
Hey Scott,
Actually, you can start commenting whenever you want. Just aim to limit any book comments on this thread to the first 59 pages. Welcome aboard!
-Cecil
(so for first-timers, if you really don’t want to hear anything about this week’s chapters before ya read them, you’ll probably opt to stay clear of the weekly thread till you’ve hit the mark. Or at least skim with a little care.)
Fellow Marchers: I’ve survived four of these marches, and have the mugs and magnets to prove it. Just sending out a shout-out of encouragement to everyone concerned about making it all the way to the end. Stop watching American Idol and The Bachelor and read Dostoevsky instead!
@Computilo: Can’t we read Dostoevsky WHILE watching American Idol and The Bachelor? When I read, I like to imagine that Ryan Seacrest is reading out loud to me. Like on a couch together or something.
Imagine my surprise to find out that my hardback copy of the TBK is the Pevear and Volokhonsky translation! So it turns out that when I was given this book 18 years ago, I just needed to wait for the Cecil Vortex Deathmarch to get me to actually read the book (as opposed to just having it on my shelf). Ok, I promise that my next posted comment will be about content instead of navel gazing.
The book arrived today. I am so glad it’s only 796 pages because in my mind that is so much less than 800:) and 59 seems like a nice warm breeze……
Perfect timing, my book just arrived. Now on to page 1 or step 1 of the march.
I just got my copy. Here we go.
This is my second attempt at TBK. Using a different edition than y’all, but the chapter mileposts will do!
Ooh, a legitimate chance to comment without having read a thing–my book is still beautiful with a virgin spine. From experience, I know it will be a crumpled mess at the end, so I’m going to enjoy its beautiful newness for a day or two more. Or maybe I am procrastinating already?
taking my copy on plane today to get things started; will it get extra-special scrutiny as both pynchons did? i’m going to guess nope.
If this group doesn’t get me through one of these long Russian novels, nothing will.
Darn. Both the Gutenberg version and the Audible version have been translated by Constance Garnett. Any idea if this will be problematic, other than not knowing exactly where to stop?
Hi Kitt,
Shouldn’t be a problem. I’ll include chapters #s every week. Might be the occasional quote or specific reference that seems “madcap” or “muddleheaded” (7) but otherwise I bet you’ll be fine. My (extravagantly) superficial understanding is that the Garnett translation was the standard for years….
Welcome aboard!
-Cecil
My first deathmarch and my first attempt at Dostoevsky, what could possibly go wrong?
For those of you interested in the translation I recommend you take a look at this New Yorker article: http://tinyurl.com/karamaz
Fyodor Pavlovich and Elder Zosima, who begin and end Cecil’s first section, strike me as pretty much the Alpha and Omega of human types. They’re both so far out at the poles though that I’ve never met anyone who compares to either one. Appreciated the Author’s Preface, warning us that it’s precisely the “odd man”–the one that lies outside the general types we meet in the everyday–“who bears within himself the heart of the whole.” 776 pages is a whole lotta whole, but I’ll try …
To Jeff: Ryan Seacrest reading the Bros. K. to anyone on a couch is just wrong. Maybe Randy, but not Ryan. But then, Randy would probably address Alyosha as “dog.” But then, who am I to judge your background ambience while reading D.
Heard about this from Brother (in law) Gill. I plan to start marching – Just need the book!
The “narrator” is one of the most interesting characters in the opening segment here. How important is it that Dostoyevsky filters the story through this voice? Why this separation? Not looking for answers yet, just questions in my mind.
Computilo: I believe the correct spelling is “dawg.” 🙂
…and we’re off!
Cecil, here’s my post.
Stopped by Borders and picked up Brothers K tonight. I’m trying to finish Cat’s Eye, by Margaret Atwood, by Tuesday so that I can begin the deathmarch on schedule.
I’m glad to see the Cecil selected the most visually pleasing edition. While I like the seriousness of a Penguin, this edition has great style.
Started book 2 today. Dialog! Woohoo!
-Cecil
The opening was a bit slow for me till we got to the meeting with Elder Zosima. Fyodor Pavlovich is quite an entertaining character, a buffoon who makes himself the joke.
You know, this is starting off pretty well. I was absorbed in the first 4 chapters i read at a coffee shop. I think i can actually do this!
OK, i think i’m going to make it. The first 4 chapters flew by in a Coffee shop, and i’m ready to march through the rest to 59 tonight…
I wish I could just ignore this, but once again I’m somewhat put off by the accepted anti-Semitism incorporated into this book. I say once again, remembering an earlier Deathmarch on Don Quixote, where Jews in the Spain of that period were just assumed to be undesirables.
Here, in 19th century Russia, the author seems to assume the reader will know what he means when twice, in explaining the father Fyodor’s coarseness not prohibiting financial success, he attributes it to his association with Jews. See first paragraph chapter 3 (p. 12): “Where he happened to have gone for a bit of contracting business in the company of some little Jew. Fyodor Pavlovich, though he led a wild, drunken, and debauched life, still never stopped investing his capital, and always managed his deals successfully, though of course always somewhat shabbily.”
And if this seems ambiguous, go to chapter 4 (p. 22): “First, he made the acquaintance, in his own words, of ‘a lot of Yids, big Yids, little Yids, baby Yids,’ but he ended up later being received ‘not just by Yids but by Jews, too.’ [Is this intended as a joke?] We may assume it was during this period of his life that he developed his special skill at knocking money together, and at knocking it out of other people.”
So the author seems to be saying: “Here’s how disgusting Fyodor was–he was just like a Jew.” I think the parallel to the Spain of Don Quixote is that in both societies church and state were virtually one. Anyone not in the church automatically couldn’t be a full citizen of the land, and was assumed to be a scoundrel at best.
T OM in KS — I wondered about that too. Wasn’t sure if it was the old badness, or if it might be evidence of a flawed narrator….
-Cecil
Determined to see this through to the end after making it half way through Crime & Punishment a year or two back. Enjoying it so far, bring on the next 60!
This looks exciting. I’m a week behind, but I’ll catch up.
I love the elder, Zosima. Unfortunately, every time he speaks I picture in my mind Avner Eisenberg’s character in “Jewel of the Nile”. So smiley, so meek, and that little rolled-up umbrella…
The narrator calls Alyosha the hero of his story, which of course makes me suspicious that he’s not. But so far, yes, that’s his role and he fits it well. I fear (here at the “inappropriate gathering”) that he will end up being a hero like Sophie in “Mamma Mia”, bringing together people who really should never meet again and only get along by some forced plot devices.
First time with Dostoevsky since senior high.. some 16 years ago, give or take a year. Surprisingly interesting and easy to read so far. Looking forward to the nex 60 or so pages..
I’m finding the narrator the most interesting thing in the first step of the march as well – he seems to flit from describing this as a history, then as a story… I remember one point the narrator humbling apologising for not being intelligent enough to give a subject the description it requires – why is Dostoyevsky doing this? Is this to make us believe in his narrative (as we believe in him?). I don’t think it’s a case of it being the author’s voice.
Also, it’s interesting that we begin with a description of the main characters, with almost a brief biography. Don’t think I’ve come across this before, as usually the author tries to “naturally” inject this information into the narrative itself.
I look forward to the next segment 🙂
It’s official – I will not be able to march this time round. I regret not joining everyone in old Russia.
I am very interested in the women, the “shriekers,” who suffer with ” a kind of feminine disorder.” I’m hoping Lise continues to speak up.
I made it to the line after the one you cite, and I’m glad the book itself is much more entertaining than the introductory sludge (which I compulsively read because I know how hard writing the front matter is, especially knowing that 90% of the readers will skip over it anyway).
Not a bad translation, but a REALLY good translation would eliminate half the names for each person, using either their nickname or the formal one, but not both interchangeably.
But hey, my motto is ‘kvetch as kvetch can.’
So far, I’m really struck by two passages:
1) Where the Elder talks about people who lie to themselves, which leads to needing to believe the lies, then to not being able to distinquish between truth and lies, leading to disrespect, which causes a person to “cease to love, and…gives himself up to passions and coarse pleasures in order to occupy and amuse himself…” and that “a man who lies to himself is often the first to take offense…while no one has offended him…and thus reaches the point of real hostility.” (p. 44)
2) The ‘Shriekers’ being the result of the exploitation of and abuse toward women, and how cynics of the time (landowners) believed that this phenomenon occured as “pretense to avoid work.” (p.47)
I see how these thoughts can translate to today’s world. Avoiding the truth, projecting our judgments onto others, and denying abuse can are age-old phenomena, whether it’s mid-19th century Russia or present time, and generally leads to a big complicated mess…as it has. Fortunately, the narrator seems to have compassion for even the most badly behaved people:
“In most cases, people, even wicked people, are far more naive and simple-hearted than one generally assumes. And so are we.”
Cheers to that!
alex.
There will be no substantive comment from me this week, because I am stubbornly trying to finish a previous book before starting on the Brothers. But I don’t want to endanger my magnetism. Will try to crack open the book before midnight and catch up in week 2.
so, while home sick and not feeling up to getting to the store to buy the book I found an old copy of another translation that I paid full retail $2.26 for who knows when. So, I’m in, up to page 17 in the smalltype penguin edition. If I get hooked I’ll spring for the right addition to get a bigger font…
Wow. I was struck by a comment on the first page…don’t have my copy with me here as I post, but the narrator describes old man Karamazov as having a muddleheadedness, in fact a special “national form of muddleheadedness.” Seems like we in the U.S. of A. know exactly what he’s talkin’ ’bout.
Have only read 2 chapters–but enjoyed them as much as 5 chapters, so I feel okay. It’s funnier than I was expecting.
Im at work, so i cant leave a detailed comment…..but great comments so far guys! So far im enjoying the story and am considering keeping a notebook for defintions…im not ashamed to say i needed to break out the dictionary a few times! Id rather get the whole meaning of a word than just a vague understanding.
I’m done with this week’s assignment, as is my mother, who has had trouble posting. Can you count us both?
Lynn & Erin Barrett
PS She actually had thought she’d posted deep and interesting thoughts about the read, but it didn’t post at all. ;-( I, however, have nothing deep or interesting to say. I just hope they leave the scene of the women begging the monk. I’m bored.
I’m on page 46. I like it so far….
Marie Jensen
Jack Mingo: “Not a bad translation, but a REALLY good translation would eliminate half the names for each person, using either their nickname or the formal one, but not both interchangeably.”
That would be going way too far away from the nature and personality of the original. How people are addressed is IMMENSELY more important in 19th-C Russia than 21st-C America; changing those references would be like re-setting Romeo and Juliet into Harlem. Not that it can’t (or even shouldn’t) be done, it just would be something other than translation and into re-interpretation.
Nothing particularly literary from me this week: just generally struck by how enjoyable the story is quite apart from the literary form and all of the depth of the references. The characters are set out to really entice you into their lives which is a great way to start a novel that is so dense (very clever marketing)!
I’m marching slower than expected. The competition is “2666” and is due back to the library in 3 days (all 900 pages of it). Surprisingly, I am noting interesting parallels. I’ll be up to speed by next week. Enjoying it so far!
I particularly liked the chapter “A Lady of Little Faith”. A pretty fundamental question and answer session. The way the elder abruptly ended his supposedly deep and meaningful response to the lady with “I am expected. Good-bye” made me smile.
Alexei is intriguing. ‘It’s always the quite ones’ as they say… and Lise seems like a bit of a minx. There’s surely a complicated history/future between the two there?
‘It’s always the *quiet* ones’, even…
My overall impression is of something like a ‘Pilot’ episode and I agree with Veronica, it is a lot funnier than I expected. Almost every character we’ve been introduced to is so markedly different to the others, so markedly ‘odd’ in one way or another.
I certainly wouldn’t want to make “a mountain out of a pea” (is that not the weirdest expression in these 60 pages? or is that normal and I’ve been in the dark?), but there does seem to be lots of Russian tea brewing to the point of bitterness on questions of individuality and humanity. I particularly like the Doctor’s wisdom and I am sympathetic to his loathing for people who have colds and sneeze. I also hate people who eat burger kings on trains but that’s by the by.
For all his faults I can’t help warming to Pavlovich, but it’s not a genuine warming, it’s like a microwave-warming.
I’m about 20 pages behind, but due to a midterm tomorrow, I won’t be able to catch up this evening. I will get caught up this weekend, however!
Waiting for the book and can’t wait to get started.
Gail
Hey everybody! Sydnee and I have been reading the book out loud to each other and it’s really helped with the absorption. Try it at home!
I’ve been really surprised by how funny this book can be. I don’t know what I was expecting, but it wasn’t humor.
hey, i’m happy to be on this new, russian march! i don’t know much to say about this first 59 pages, except that my favorite phrase thus far has been “…a big Adam’s apple, fleshy and oblong like a purse, hung below his sharp chin, giving him a sort of repulsively sensual appearance.” looking forward to it!
Agreed on the “comedic” aspect, at least so far. Even the setup of the scene sounds like the beginning of a joke. “So these three guys who hate each other go to a monastery…”
I’m still fixating on the narrator. Is Alyosha the “hero” to him, or to Dostoevsky as well?
I’m in awe of Dostoevsky’s powers of observation and characterization.
For example, here’s how he introduces Pyotr Kalganov on page 35: “He was thoughtful and, as it were, distracted. He had a nice face, was strongly built and rather tall. His gaze sometimes acquired a strange fixity: like all very distracted people, he would sometimes look directly at you, and for a long time, without seeing you at all. He was taciturn and somewhat awkward, but occasionally–only, by the way, when he was alone with someone–he would suddenly become terribly talkative, impulsive, giggly. laughing sometimes for no reason at all. But as quickly and suddenly as his animation was born it would also quickly and suddenly die out. He was always well and even elegantly dressed; he already possessed some independent means and had expectations of much more. He was friendly with Aloysha.”
It’s obvious he wasn’t writing with an eye toward signing an option with a film producer.
Gerry
First week of the deathmarch done! This book has been sitting, unread, on my shelf for nigh on twelve years now–I’m very happy to be finally breaking the spine.
A couple of thoughts:
1. I’m enjoying the awkwardness of the narrator’s prose– ungainly and shapeless, something that disappears when Zosima starts talking. The narrator seems as much a character as any in the book–I’m looking forward to seeing how we end up feeling about his feelings about Aloysha.
2. Along the same lines, the anti-semitism expressed on behalf of Fyodor (Karamazov) is most uncomfortable precisely because it’s unclear if that’s the view of the author, narrator, and/or just Fyodor. A little wikipedia research suggests that the issue of Dostoevsky’s own anti-semitism, or lack thereof, is still up for debate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fyodor_Dostoevsky#Works_and_influence see the penultimate paragraph in that section).
3. Wondering, as usual with translation, how good the translation is. Spot comparison with the Garnett version (http://books.google.com/books?printsec=frontcover&dq=brothers+karamazov+garnett&lr=&id=nLEGs3YIbwAC#PPA78,M1) suggests that this one takes a lot more care to give each of the individual voices in the novel its own style.
4. Surprised at how openly atheism is discussed in the novel, and, apparently, in 19th c. Russia in general. You just don’t see that in English or American lit of the time–at least I can’t think of any major examples.
5. Enjoying the prospect of some 738 pages to go. It’s nice to be at the beginning of such long enterprise–and in such good company!
Mike
The first 10 pages took me forever to read as I was refamiliarizing myself with the complexities of Russian names (not like Chinese names are any easier, mind you). After 59 pages, I think I have all the names straight – and that was my main goal for this first part. 🙂 So far, so good.
Finally got the book today. Quite exciting to read it a second time and in a newer translation. Hoping to make up ground quickly…
Just getting my comment in at the last minute!
“In most cases, people, even wicked people, are far more naive and simple-hearted than one generally assumes. And so are we.” How optimistic!
I recently read Umberto Eco’s Six Walks in the Fictional Woods and I found myself thinking about some of the things he says about “pretending” along with the narrator. I imagine this narrator elbowing us in the ribs and winking slyly as he tells the story.
This is going to be fun!
Enjoying the book, and the comments. March on everyone!
Im not sure what my role is if others are going to point out all references to Jews and Yids. Can I at least have the yids? Im really enjoying the book and comments posted, so far. I also was struck by, and really like, the voice of the narrator, which made me think of Don Quixote. Im not sure if there was a similar narrator dynamic in DQ, but I only read on deathmarches, so my ability to analogize is limited. I also thought several of Zosima’s comments are good depictions of humans today. After this week’s reading, Im more optimistic about being able to make it thru the book. Thanks Cecil!
i did it. i read the allotted pages in the time allowed. i’m not sure if it helped that i had started the book about 10 years ago… i am enjoying it. =)
So I’m remembering reading Notes from the Underground years ago and my first impression is that Dostoevsky is exploring similar ground. The narrator (and whether you trust or understand him or not) is as much a character as the protagonist. Very interested in the rest of the book.
Is six and a half hours late too late? Let me slide on this one, Cecil, and I’ll be on it from here on out, I swear. If not, I’mma still see it out, because this first chunk made me remember how much I love ol’ Fyodor, how he’s the kind of darkly funny that I pretend to be…
I’m wondering if Fyodor is as much a fool as the narrator makes him out to be. Yes, he is shown to be a fool, but perhaps a very sly fool?
You bet Ryan — you’re still in the magnet hunt, but only because you’re the kind darkly funny that Fyodor aspires to be….
Must…comment. Must…have…magnet.
Privyet
i have never met a clever madcap i didnt like
although
i have met a couple holy fools i didnt like
foolish in the ways of the world is the only fool to me
a fool for pudding over a fool for manna (“He was far from religious; the man probably had never put a five-kopek candle in front of an icon.”)
— give me bernie madoff over jerry falwell
emancipation of the serfs 1861 (a poor man has a soulless estate) — two years before usa’s emancipation of the slaves — and who has not bellyached their indentured servanthood?
…even in this alone the young man demonstrated his practical and intellectual superiority over that eternally needy and miserable mass of our students of both sexes who, in our capitals, from morning till night, habitually haunt the doorways of various newspapers and magazines, unable to invent anything better than the eternal repetition of one and the same plea for copying work or translations from the French…
YES!
so outsource some Indian scribes, we say today! flood the manured farms, clean out the artless stables!
i am happy to be in the salubrious quarters of the sexless zosima! but all the shriekers! you should have seen how many we had in on saturday…thronging.
Forgive or forsake, there is no cry:
i left my book at the farmer’s market near the cherries. here’s to hoping small agribusiness has a heart for literature and sends it back. related note: cecil, don’t allow any farmers into the march
starting
now
I just have to say that I finished reading this weeks worth on like Saturday and it is really hard to restrain myself from just finishing the darn thing. Luckily I have plenty of reading I can be doing for school, but I hate being in two or three books like this. This sounded easy until I understood that I have to take it slow.
So far so good, I just cant wait to get into the meat of the story.
i’m in.
I started this behemoth twice before. I think the third attempt will find p. 796. I’m enjoying it so far, though I, too, find the anti-Semitism a turn off. But I also see it as part of Fyodor’s character and not Dostoyevsky’s personal prejudice. Let the most pathetic character be the anti-Semite.
It’s interesting how the brothers, father, and Miusov are distinguished by such basic philosophical and religious differences. Like others, I’m curious to know who the narrator is, since he refers to himself (“I”) periodically: will he remain this all-knowing but invisible first-person storyteller?
Final observation: such suffering, especially among peasant women! That whole “shreiker” phenomenon sounds a bit like what was called “hysteria” in this culture until recently. Maybe it’s also a kind of meme.
The narrator offers a sympathetic explanation.
Surprisingly readable; and beyond that, surprisingly modern feel. Fyodor is the funniest but almost as painful for us to observe as he is for Alyosha and the others. It’s no wonder he’s going to be offed. So far so good!
where is the money.
i like the way things are divided up. it makes it easy to get to the next section.
I’m wondering whether this Dostoevsky can be trusted.